Mistakes Persist, but Put a 'W' in the Bank
Published: Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:07pm ET
By Randy Lange
Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
File Under: Eric Mangini, Kansas City Chiefs, David Bowens, Leon Washington, Brett Favre, Kris Jenkins, Damien Woody
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10/26 — The Jets fans who showed up for today's 28-24 victory over Kansas City were on hand for a double helping of franchise history, and I don't mean just the 40th anniversary ceremonies to honor the Super Bowl III team at halftime.
The win today was the first time ever that the Jets or their Titans ancestors ever rolled up a minus-3 turnover differential in a home game — and won. After losing 44 (and tying one) of those games with a minus-3 or worse, the Green & White finally broke through today. Historic.
Let that sink in. It's kind of the worst of times and the best of times. Brett Favre throws three interceptions of the what's-he-doing? variety while the Jets defense and specialists can't turn the 1-5 Chiefs over even once.
"I'm always concerned about it," Favre said of the picks, which now total an NFL-leading 11 through today's early games. "They seem to follow me everywhere I go. I thought I'd left those behind."
Instead, No. 4 brought three more with him today and he heard the boos from Jets Nation.
"I don't blame them ... it was a little premature, as we see now."
And that's why it's the best of times. I'm like the players, not the fans, when it comes to these U-G-L-Y-you-ain't-got-no-alibi wins, these "Shrek"-tories. I'm not giving it back. I'm not going to ask for a discount. I'm not calling Elias Sports Bureau to get the W changed to an L. I'm not apologizing.
"Ugly, pretty — we'll take 'em all," said linebacker David Bowens, who got another heavy dose of reps after David Harris' second-quarter injury departure. "I'll sleep tonight."
But I'm like the players and the fans when it comes to mistakes. If this Jets team is going to make some joyful noise this season, things need to get fixed and fast.
The turnover matter has to be killing head coach Eric Mangini. How many times has he preached, as he did again today, that turnovers are "usually the biggest, most important statistic in the game"? Just some snapshots from Jets history shows that. Here are the records for the Jets, from 1960 to present, for minus-3 games and worse:
| TO Differential | Home Record | Overall Record |
| Minus-7 | 0-1, .000 | 0-1, .000 |
| Minus-6 | 0-2, .000 | 0-3, .000 |
| Minus-5 | 0-4, .000 | 0-8, .000 |
| Minus-4 | 0-14, .000 | 0-32-1, .015 |
| Minus-3 | 1-23-1, .060 | 4-54-3, .090 |
| Totals | 1-44-1, .033 | 4-98-4, .057 |
And yet the Jets are minus-6 for the season, minus-8 in the three games since the bye.
"Turnovers are the great equalizer," said Mangini. "It's the first point we stress. ... We have to do a better job protecting the ball. Until we do that, we're going to continue to put ourselves in a difficult position."
Mangini stressed that every TO is not all on the QB, but he did say that "obviously the quarterback will share the bulk" of the blame. Whatever he told Favre before, during and after this game, it sounds as if the message is sinking in for the Old Gunslinger.
"I realize making mistakes on my end puts this team in jeopardy — it puts any team in jeopardy," Favre said in the middle of a response to the third question at his news conference in the interview room podium. "That's the last thing I want to do. I think the more you worry about those, it seems like the more likely they are to happen. To answer your question, it's a concern, it's always a concern. Believe me, I'm doing my best to try to eliminate them. But I'm also trying to do my best to help this team win."
On the other side of the ball, I suggested to nose tackle Kris Jenkins that all things considered, he was probably happy to get out of here with a victory today. Jenk wasn't buying any of it.
"I don't really feel good. We've got a lot of work to do," he said. "I think we really got exposed this week. I think we have more potential than we show sometimes. I think we have the potential to be a whole lot better than what we present sometimes. That's why even though we won, I'm not satisfied."
So there it is. The Jets, while giving credit to the Chiefs' effort, aren't happy with their exposure in Week 8, and they will hear about how unhappy they should be when they reconvene this week.
But meanwhile, the offense has had back-to-back 400-yard games since 1998, the defense yielded 80 rushing yards and pitched four three-and-out drives, three consecutively in the second half, and teams, well, teams had Leon Washington. Enough said.
"We're 4-3. What more can you ask for?" tackle Damien Woody said. "We're a game out of first and we're going up to Buffalo to play the team in first. At this point last year here, it was a whole different story."
I won't take away any of that from the Jets after this interesting day in franchise history.
More Turnover Trivia
The other minus-3 victories in franchise history, all on the road, each have a little something going for them besides the Jets being lucky and good.
The Jets finished their otherwise forgettable 1980 season with a 24-17 victory at Miami in the great NBC "Silence Bowl" experiment — the game broadcast featured game sound and no announcers except to go into and out of commercial breaks (5 giveaways, 2 takeaways).
The other two came within 10 weeks of each other in 2001, in the first season at the helm for Herm Edwards, who of course was on the visitors' sidelines with the Kansas City Chiefs today.
In Week 7 at Carolina, reporters dubbed the Jets' 13-12 win over the Panthers as the proverbially ugly win. Herm and his staff ran with that ball, putting up posters from the first Shrek movie and spreading pointy green ears around the second floor of the Hofstra training complex (4 GAs, 1 TA).
In Week 16 they traveled to Oakland needing a win to make the playoffs. John Hall nailed a 53-yard field goal with 59 seconds to go, out of Tom Tupa's great hold of a rare off snap by James Dearth, that earned the Jets a 24-22 victory — and a return trip to Oakland for a Saturday night AFC Wild Card date (3 GAs, 0 TAs).
Fans Respond
Here's your chance to tell Randy what you think! Add a Comment | Hide All Show All (108)jak jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:43pm ET"ok so it wasnt favres day . take away those 3 ints and he had a good day. everyone has bad days, least favre can lead the jets in come back drives,and there will be games where hes not the culprit that dug the holes. we gotta run sometimes on 3rd and 1 or 2. shouldnt make qb shoulder so much responsibility.and if so ,then oline should protect better in such a scheme."
jetfan Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:46pm ET"is there any reason why we didnnt run more? its crazy. then we let a 3rd string qb that has no running game look like they are the ones with the hall of famer. i really dont like the offensice coord. we had 3rd and 2 i think. with a chance to tie or take the lead. instead of running we throw. pic six. its terrible. they have to fix a lot."
TimUT Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:50pm ET"Pennington sure looked good today. Really wish he was back. Big tuna proved it wasnt are QB that kept us from winning games it is coaching. If I see another Brett INT i'm gonna puke. I called it, everyone loves Brett but all I see is old man play and INT. Get me pennington back or give Ratliff a chance"
Dunnie Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:52pm ET"Simple fact is that we are not that good right now. We consistently make poor teams look good. We made J Russell look like a decent QB and this kid from KC looked like the next Tom Brady against us !!! Does anyone remember Trent Edwards coming out party ??? It was against us !"
max Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:53pm ET"Ok, so first we lose to a team who is in total and complete disarray (Oakland) and manage to score an impressive 13 points.. Then we barely squeak by the Chiefs at home, without their best player! Are you kidding me? Thigpen looked like Montana. And our veteran QB throws 3 more picks. If it wasn't for LW we would've lost for sure; he saved the day. Let's face it, the Jets are not a very good team"
CEDRIC Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:54pm ET"Bad gameplan or not, all those INTs, Farve's Fault. I think the Jets bought an old gun with no safety. This offense was built for CP to run it, Woody Johnson got blinded by the Farve aura. proud of the W, but its about time they realized what they got in farve."
CEDRIC Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:16pm ET"Oh, I've never liked Shotty & Sutton. Mangini takes the blame for their mistakes, well thats his job, but both OC & DC are suspect. Fellas on this site, its week 8- this is the Jets, they arent going to get any better. Face it"
Ira Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:23pm ET"Randy, You take the wins however they come. The troubling thing is the Jets have now played 7 games and they still have not shown much improvement,[a little on offense] are making more mistakes, and are turning the ball over more. The turnovers are alarming and must be fixed. They are at the half way mark next week and if they are going to make a run they need to address these problems.GO JETS!!!!"
CEDRIC Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:23pm ET"I figured it out!!! Shotty job title is not offensive coordinator, its "opposite coordinator', it all makes sense now!!"
Joe P. Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:34pm ET"OUTCOACHED, pure and simple - again. This team consistently gets outplayed by inferior teams. That can occasionally happen to any team, but it happens more often than not with these Jets. When is everyone going to realize that this Head Coach and his entire staff are incompetent? Woody Johnson deserves better, the players deserve better and the fans deserve better. Pathetic."
Alex Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:48pm ET"Chad Pennington would sure be nice right now!!!"
Jay Guthy Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:54pm ET"Is it too late to bring back Chad? I respect Favre but I never wanted him in the first place. With Chad we'd be 5-2 and possibly 6-1. Brutal...can Favre PLEASE stop throwing off his back foot? "
Drew Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:55pm ET"Enough of the we want Chad crap. The trade for Favre was the right one. Chad took us as far as he can.... B-Schott has to understand that sometimes you dont let Favre be Favre when you're playing a horrible team and outplaying them. Favre pics let bad teams hang around 2 weeks in a row. How does the RB's get a total of 20 carries against this team? We should have had 20 carries in the 1st half!!"
Donna Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:56pm ET"Hurray!!! It was a win none the less. Favre didn't let up and played through the end. I'd say for 39 yrs., and being still new at learning to play differently that we have reason to be thankful. For someone who has thrown so many yards, there is a risk of interceptions. Last week, P. Manning, who is 10 plus yrs. younger didn't play so well. Lets see him and the others at 39 set the records."
newjetsfan Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 9:58pm ET"You guys are unbelievable!!! You get one amazing qback, who happens to have helped the Jets win as many games already as they did all last season, and you whine. I wish he were still in Green Bay where there was a good team who could protect him long enough to be able to make a play without getting killed. And an offense that was well organized. I'm not a Jets fan, just a Favre fan."
Drew Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:00pm ET"It's funny with B-Schott, his dad was known to run the ball all day even when he should throw it and he is the total opposite. I've tried to give him a break so far with Favre but there is no need for some of these play calls. He designs really nice plays (with Smith, Leon and some pick plays with the WR's) but he has to learn to line it up and run down teams throats to win sometimes"
Drew Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:03pm ET"Finally...I mentioned this in a earlier post. Has anyone heard if Leon is on a list of potential players who could get suspended? I read on Saturday that there were reports that he and some players from the Saints we being investigated because of taking banned suppliments? As today showed us again... he might be our best player. 4 games without him could be a disaster!"
JM Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:16pm ET"If you knew a little about football, you would realize when a receiver breaks the pattern and is as much responsible for the interception as the quarterback. All they got in Farve was a Hall of Fame player who is helping a franchise learn how to win again. Support the team and enjoy the season. "
Rich Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:23pm ET"i called this from the beginning. I do love favre, but i was extremely worried about this. lets all remember tho...pennington is good but would never be able to close out games. not sticking up 4 favre just saying still is the chance to improve this season. big test next week. def. agree that many things need to be fixed tho. i just get very discouraged by INTS and favre has thrown many so far."
MrMagoo Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:31pm ET"Give me a break,..are all the fans from New York bandwagoners? If those receivers would complete their routed,.Brett would only have less than half of the picks. Anyone can play the blame game. If I remember right,..CP lost against us because he couldnt lead a come back. Brett did,..and would have last week had brad smith had not fallen down. There are plenty of people messing up ,..not just Brett"
scjoe Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:38pm ET"Funny, little by little I am starting to hear the Chad bashers jump off of the Favre bandwagon. But believe it or not, it could get worse. Imagine Favre getting hurt and going to Clemens. I for one am looking forward to the Ratliff era. I only pray it is with the Jets. We all know how they manage to spread talent around the league."
sal Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:47pm ET"Randy you probably wont post this, but i have to write it. The hacks @sny mostly the host of sports nite dosnt have a clue, comparing penningtons stats w/farves quote him as far as saying miami got the better end of the deal. didnt pennington get benched, SNY makes me sick"
sal Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 10:59pm ET"This one is postable, I guess some people forgot last year and the years prior,I will put my money on Favre anyday over Pennington. How many games did Chad win last year. If you are going to compare the last three weeks stats, lets include last year, we cant Favres got playoff stats too from last year"
sal Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:07pm ET"I think Miami is in last place. I cant believe Pennington is even being talked about. forgot last year, I think the Jets have the same amount of wins as last year. If they are goig to compare stats compare the season not the last three games.WIDE OUTS NEED TO FINISH AND FIGHT THRU ROUTES. LC excluded"
Drew Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:29pm ET"Apparently if you're a Favre fan he dosent make mistakes. Come on Favre fans....he has played pretty poorly the last 2 weeks. His redzone turnovers have been obscene. To blame the route the WR's are running is silly. I wanted Favre as much as anyone but if Favre plays badly he will get blamed. He has not won any titles for us so he gets alot less slack over here. Understand it and root for Rodgers"
lavenderg Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:31pm ET"Yeah i want Chad and his noodle arm to come back and throw10 yard squirel routes to lc that skip off the grass, what a joke. This is all about Farve and his wrangler jeans drawing up plays in the dirt and just making jets fans age twenty years on each series. Will see all you haters in here next week after the bills get owned, and favre hangs 40 plus on the scoreboard."
Ray Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:56pm ET"All this is not on Favre, he has just got his share. This team would be no better off with Chad. I think Brett is hurting, his throws look different. He needs about one more second back there. How about a roll out once in a while? Get him out of the pocket. Still not on the same page with the WR's all the time. JC has twice cut a route short & looked like Stuckey eased up on that one today."
Wayne Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 11:57pm ET"Not impressed again this week. Lucky to put this one in the win column against a terrible Chiefs team. Lost last week to the lousy Raiders. Spent over a 100 million to build a playoff caliber team & we still look like the same old Jets Mangini has no fire in him.Too young & inexperienced & hasn't got the respect from the players.Sporano of Phins is vocal, passionate & can coach. Fire Mangini now! "
dade county jets fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:03am ET"Hey..."new jets fan" you wish favre was still in Green Bay? So do I. Any quartback can throw 3 interceptions. I'd rather have Brad Smith at QB right now than favre. I cant see us playing like this and beating a good team"
jet jeff Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:33am ET"3rd and 2 at the 8 yd line we are up by 4 , if we dont get a first then chip shot puts us 7 in front. WHAT THE HECK WERE THEY THINKING, I DONT CARE IF HE THREW A TD ,I CALLED A JONES RUN UP THE MIDDLE OR OFF TACKLE!!!!! horrible play-call , didnt titans just run on the same team last week for over 320 yds. not bretts fault but he is getting beat up and thats tireing him out. "
Fed-up Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:41am ET"You guys are something. It doesn't matter if a receiver breaks off a route when the QB heaves a hail mary whiles he's falling to the ground. So blame the receiver for one bad route and Favre still takes the other two. Funny how he gets a pass from you guys. Funnier still Favres comment that he thought he left those behind. Are you kidding me? "
jet jeff Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:43am ET"was that len dawson over there or just our defense playing like they always do"
Christopher Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 1:10am ET"Another horrible game, at least it was a win, thanks to Leon. At some point Mangini needs to take control, but I doubt it will happen. Next time Farve throws multiple INT's pull him. Farve wants to play, well make him sit and maybe he will start thinking about what he is doing. That 3rd and short where he went long into double coverage, what was that? Worst call of the game. "
Ed in Tucson Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 2:22am ET"My first visit since just before Raiders' game. That game was disgusting! This week's game wasn't much better- but we won. I did like the Brad Smith pass attempt. Even if it was incomplete, it spread out the KC D; TJ was able to run for a big gain up the middle 2 plays after that 1. I liked D Keller getting more touches. If Favre keeps throwing ints, it might be time to give Ratso Ratliffe some PT"
Justin Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 3:22am ET"I agree with Mr Magoo. Still, even in our national game of AFL ( Australian Football) there is, last time I checked, more than one player per team. I am pretty sure the NFL is the same. Is 53 the number on the active roster? He's thrown how many TD's this year?? Whats your record? Give it up for Favre, enjoy the next couple of seasons with him. "
uncle joe Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 6:47am ET"Stuckey stopped his pattern & the other 2 he was hit while throwing.Keller had a nice game.Leon must get resigned NOW.Randy hows HITMAN?Awesome watching Farve ram into the pile to try to push Jones in the endzone.This guy is crazy,nuts and great and the best thing that happened to us.Ill take 3 Ints a week.Love the music at the end of the game!Never heard that at a Jets game before."
john Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 7:09am ET"Yes we had 3 picks,but , 2 his arm was hit and the other the reciever stopped running.. I loved Chad however Brett wins games and when he is at the helm.you know you can come back. I think more then Brett the defense scares the crap out of me. How can you look so great on one play then the next few look like a high school team. The Jets have a lot of "d " talent. I AM STILL SO HAPPY WE HAVE BRET"
Ira Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 7:19am ET"Drew, I heard the same thing about Leon. Hope its not true. I was one of the few who did not want the Favre trade. I know Chad was only going to take them so far. But look at who is playing better right now. Also the offense is struggling because of lack of chemistry. Favre is that reason. Just hope this all can be solved real fast. And hope he is not hurt bad."
SteveO Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 7:31am ET"1st mistake Jets made was letting CP go to a division rival especially 1 with Parcells in charge. I still dont understand that one. But shows what good management and coaching will do for a QB and a team. Wherever Parcells goes his teams play tough and Miami will be a top notch team in the AFC in a yr or 2. While the Jets try to figure out who's the problem coaches or players."
Frank Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 8:20am ET"The coaching, game planning and play calling continue to be atrocious. The O-line lead by Woody has been awful if Chad was here with the beating Favre has taken he would already be on IR. Let me also remind you Chad was 1-6 last year and throwing the same red zone int's. So like I said all along it's the coaching and the play calling the team plays uptight, emotionless and not to lose..."
Frank Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 8:22am ET"...If something radical doesn't change soon we won't have a chance in the next 4 games."
Dunnie Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 8:28am ET"Enough comments saying that we were beat by inferior teams ... right now ... we are an inferior team. period. we don;t scare anyone. The problem here is coaching pure and simple. How much $$$ did we throw at the problem ... the responsibility is the coaching staff's period. Where is Vernon Gholston ... did they give up on him ??"
mike ex jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 8:29am ET"Guy's about Chad being here .. I like Chad as much as the next guy hes VERY lucky hes not here... If he ever got hit as many times as Brett this year would be in intensive care..... Miami is giving him much better protection & game planning to get the ball out quick with gadgets & such plays that are suited 2 Chads strengths.. Brett 7-0 in that system Chad in our system he would be hospitalized"
Blinka Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 8:41am ET"Randy, Please! Throw hot coffee in my face. Why do the Jets convert Defensive Ends into Linebackers and put them in pass-coverage? I fail to see anything but a player out of position."
Alex M Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 9:19am ET"WHY DO WE CONTINUE TO THROW THE BALL ON 3RD & SHORT??????"
FireflyJets Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 9:25am ET"It's not a question of Chad versus Brett. The problem is with the coaching staff, especially the OC and DC. Chad is doing well in Miami because they have better coaches. Farve would be doing even better there. It doesn't matter who our quarterback is. The coaches we have will make any QB look bad. A shame, really, and a waste good talent. The coaches have to go, period."
jeff Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 9:33am ET"Brett and his recievers, are just at the brink of being an elite core in this years Football season, i feel that if we run the ball with leon, more than jones, it will open up the downfeild a lot better, I do miss chad as well he was a great smart qb in his time as a jet, but in the past 2 weeks, chad couldnt drive us the lenght of the field to set up a game-tying or winning drive,lucky we got W"
Brad Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 9:57am ET"Randy, I know there was an extra draft pick available to the Jets in the Vilma trade based on his performance. Do you know what the conditions were and the pick the Jets could receive."
Randy Lange Said:
"Brad, I don't have that info but it has been mentioned on several newspaper Websites."
BIG AL Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:01am ET"i agree forget chad he is playing well with the fish so be it, we need to worry about ourselves, and when is this line? going to start protecting #4 because it seems to me he lost his zip and is trying to hard to squeeze the ball to recievers and he gets picked 2-3 times a game maybe we should start exploring the ratliff era next month if things stay sour cant hurt anymore then whats going on now"
BIG AL Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:07am ET"brett favre looks like he is playing football in a wrangler commercial with friends at the BBQ on the ranch and the offense is horrible i was watching faneca on the side line the guy looked like he ran a marathon no guts on this JETS O-LINE and the jets d-fens once again saved them from another loss that would have cripled the jets standing in the afc at any run for the playoffs"
Sindrew Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:30am ET"A loss and a squeaked out win to two of the worst teams in football. Sound familiar? Same thing every year. I am glad Brett is on the team but the anemic offense was never Chad's fault and it's not Brett's fault. It's the coach's fault - 3 years running."
MikeMc Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:32am ET"The question should be "is Favre mailing it in?" It seems he's playing sloppy, maybe its lack of studying, maybe his mind is elsewhere during the week. Next week will expose him if his preparation is poor."
Don Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:36am ET"Randy, why on earth did the Jets pass so much against a team ranking last in almost every defensive rushing statistic? I love the fact that the Jets have shored up their offensive line to control games. There's no doubt in my mind that the Jets could have picked up first downs on those third and ones and third and twos. If we're going to win the East, we've got to establish the running game. "
Don Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:39am ET"Ira, I too was never crazy about the Favre trade. This guy will be out of here after 1 year and then where will we be? We will know a lot about Mr. Favre after the next 4 weeks which includes trips to Buffalo, NE and Tenn. It's time to put up and shut up. And one more thing - could Deanna Favre please go away. She is about annoying as Anna Benson."
sindrew Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:49am ET"I am afraid Buffalo will be the game the ends Brett's string of starting games. Offensive line couldn't hold back kittens."
t.o Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 10:56am ET"WHERE IN GODS NAME IS OUR O LINE? GIVE FAVRE A BREAK! IF CHAD, WHO ILL ALWAYS LOVE, GOT HIT HALF THE TIMES BRETTS GOTTEN HIT ALREADY , WE'D BE STARTING CLEMENS(YUK) OVER RATLIFF AND BE 4-12 AGAIN!! THE O LINE IS SWIAA CHEESE AS IS OUR SECONDARY. IDK WHAT WOODYS PAYING THE COACHES BUT HES GETTING BURNT FOR MILIONS! TIME TO WAKE UP WOODY AND START ROLLIN SOME HEADS! I CALL BETTER PLAYS IN MY SLEEP!"
Butts Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:00am ET"The Jets got to get it together. 3rd and short and we come out in a pass formation??? Pound that ball.!!!We were playing kc! Not Buffalo or the Pats.If you cant run the ball against a team like kc in 3rd and short situations then what are you going to do against a stout 7 or 8 of buffalo next week? Favre is making too many dumb throws.3rd and short and you throw up top into double coverage? boo"
Bob Horsham Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:01am ET"When will we fire that poor excuse of an offensive coordinator.The only thing he is,is Offensive. "
BobbyRJetFan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:04am ET"First of all with Mangini at the helm we are not going anywhere. Lets wake up and smell the coffee. Second Brett Farve is not the answers to our problems. We should go after Brady Quinn and start fresh. Third SCHOTT must go !!!!!!"
Damone Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:07am ET"Dunnie,i remember that "coming out"party that Trent Edwards had against us.Now we're gonna give him a "going away" party this Sunday.I think both of our coordinators are suspect but overall,i think Mangini is pretty good. "
jet jeff Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:09am ET"randy , how do you sum up the play-calling like the third and shorts , where the defense of the cheifs were expecting the throws??"
Jim 40 yr. season ticket holder Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:14am ET"Maybe it isabout time to talk about a coaching change? Jets were totally unprepared as they were last week. Mangini looks comatose on the sidelines and his teams look the same. Again #6 pick vernon gholston no show. How can u be a good team when you have the 6th overall pick and he does not contibute. Great job Jets scouting ans GM"
Wayne Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:15am ET"Have news for you Jet fans,Pennington looks great..Not throwing INT's & hitting the 20 yd pass consistantly.That's because the Phins have an offense he can make plays in-not just dink & dunk where still using for Favre.Sporanos a real coach with a plan.3rd & 13 & our defense makes Thigpen look like Montana.Right before half he converts & instead of 3 they get 7.Seconday is terrible Feely does too"
DAN Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:20am ET"THE TEAM ACTS LIKE ITS COACHES WITHOUT EMOTION SORRY MANGINI-SHOT AND SUTTON YOU DO NOT PLAY TO WIN YOU HAVE YOUR TEAM PLAY NOT TO LOOSE .YOUR CONSTANT NONE AGGRESSIVE DEFENSE HAS LED TO EVERY QB LOOKING LIKE A STAR WITH CROSSING PATTERNS AND OVER THE LINEBACKER PASSES AND SHORTS IN FRONT OF DB'S. THE PROBLEM IS NOT #4 -WHY WHEN WE GET AN ALL PRO DO THEY ALL OF A SUDDEN ACT LIKE A RESERVE"
fed up Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:21am ET"When Favre has decent protection, you have the first drive. When the defense goes from brilliant to non-existant, you have problems. This is all still a work in progress...the tools are there, they just need to be sharpened...until then, Favre might have interceptions but he will still give you a win when given a decent chance to do so.....live with it!!!"
Jesse Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:23am ET"I am with Drew and I've been saying this for the past 2 weeks! I don't blame Favre or our defense. B-Schott is calling 2 many pass plays and not letting TJ and LW a chance to run the ball! Leon only had 3 carries for over 60 yards!!! Both of them could've of put 100 yd. games! It's sad that even Kansas City knew we were going to get pass happy! This is a run first team and Favre is a compliment!"
Rick Roucoulet Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:28am ET"So funny how a persons views can change from week to week: A poor game will have someone say the chemistry is bad & the following week w/a win, the same person will say the chemistry is there & vise versa again the next week. Its NOT chemistry guys, ITS CONSISTENCY"
Damone Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:31am ET"We all know Favre is going to throw int's,if you didn't know that,than you dont know Favre.Since he's gonna throw int's we need to improve on our pass defense.Teams are having trouble running the ball on us but when it comes to passing...we look BAD!!Favre is also a heck on a QB that can win big football games.No more red zone INT'S Brett!!"
Tom Spicer Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:33am ET"For all you guys that are saying I wish we had Chad 1 we would not have beat the Cards with Chad we would have a worse record 2 Do you think Chad would not already be hurt & be missing multiple games with all the hits that Favre is taking the pass blocking is bad he is getting leveled Chad would have broken something already for sure"
Tom Spicer Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:34am ET"Anyone want to make money bet the Bills this weekend cause there is no way in hell that the Jets beat them "
chekov Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:39am ET"Brett and CP are different and similar. they are good qb's, BF throw better, went to 2 super bowls, playoff( to many to remember), 3 time mvp, what am I missing oh ya iron man of the nfl. And Has the hightest int in the nfl. meaning he wins good or bad he winssssss. CP, went to a bunch of playoff, never a mvp, lower int than BF and won lesssssssssssssss. BF winss, CP losssss get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
tim Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:43am ET"Brett also has a injury no one is talking about, Why? Big Ben had 4 interceptions, no one talks about that. In the long run Brett is BEST ! If that was Chad he would be sitting on the injury list not playing."
Tom Spicer Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:44am ET"It has to be the coaching we have 4 1st round picks on our o line faneca & woody have won super bowls faneca makes the pro bowl every year. we have 3 good TE's, we have good WR'S, we have a all pro FB & a hall of fame QB. On D we have a all pro NT, 2 good DE's, 4 good LB'S, a shut down corner & a all pro saftey. IT HAS TO BE THE COACHING KC gives up 200 yards per game on the ground so we throw it"
Favrefan21388 Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:47am ET"Favre should not have thrown some of the deep balls, but he wasn't getting any protection. The 2 interceptions he threw deep, were partially because he was getting hit, or the receivers weren't running through. Favre can't do it all by himself, and just be glad you're 4-3. Realize that Favre led a 13-3 team last year...Pennington led a 4-12 team...big difference "
Favre Fan/GB fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:47am ET"I watched Favre in green bay since 92. Every game. You're going to get Pickles with Favre but you'll also get a chance to win against anyone anytime anyplace. He gambles a lot, and he'll lose some but overall he wins more than he loses. (check record) He knows this. He plays to win. Doesn't play "not to lose." Favre has to come out gunning for the jets to have any chance this year."
mike ex jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 11:56am ET"O-line .. We have 4 1st round picks . Some 1 needs to be accountable ,. Come on guys have some self respect .. Should be Embarrassed 2 collect them 6 figure checks YES every week & if not .. Get on the bus Gus we don't want 2 .. Hello that's why your here ..Defence wheres the pass coverage U will have time 4 play station .. After the game not Dorine.. Be very ashamed.. It's disgraceful"
JP Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:04pm ET"OK, part of the problem is that there seems to be no relevance to the playcalling. Almost all, if not all 3rd and short situations favre was in the gun with an empty back feild. Why not just hand the defense the playbook? You have got to at least show you've got options in those situations or anyone will throw some pics. It is like turning 3rd and 2 into a hail mary play."
fljetfan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:06pm ET"ok, thru 7 weeks we see farve cant be key to off. ,clearly we need to get more run orriented, take some pressure of him. think he'll be more productive with a better run game. at 39, he cant throw 40 times. however, teams still have to respect the 'legend'. its the only way to use him at this stsge of career"
max Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:10pm ET"If I hear from another announcer how Favre has seen every defense, blitz, etc. I'm gonna scream. The last 2 games were against two young QBs and Favre was outplayed by both. Didn't we just spend a zillion $$$ on a bunch of free agents to make this team a winner now? Our best player (LW) is a 4th round pick. Oh yeah, let's not run Jones against the 32nd ranked run defense, that would be nuts. "
Kevin from Mahwah Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:12pm ET"This is why they are the Jets. The O comes out throwing against the worst run defense team. Great work Eric. They think run we will pass! We could have done this with Chad! Really what the heck are you thinking. I am just a fan but I am not a fool. Seems to happen when one puts on the green and white Thank you for a win that you should have lost. The Bills are going to smoke us. The staff is out!!"
fljetfan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:19pm ET"contd.... do i want chad back? no. farve can still instill fear, chad does not. chads playing with a chip, but it wont last. we saw it for a long time. again, lets run the ball and then well see farves true value. the o line clearly wants to run block, let them do it! if you watch chad hes succcedes with play action, lets copycat that mr mangini. before its to late!!!"
Anthony Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:32pm ET"I'm sorry but I think Shotty needs to go. I don't dislike the guy but his Offensive play calling is SUSPECT. WHY would you pass the ball vs the worst running defense in the league. I mean I a m a jet fan but also I have a brain in my head you attack what the other team does the worst. And we need more play action. THat would make people have to commit to the run then have Favre throw the bomb"
Ablity Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:33pm ET"after farve throw two picks because he was trying to force it, he should not be in the shotgun in the redzone. these coach dont know what to do eva. when we need to run, they get into the shotgun, when we need to throw, they get in i-formation, the o-line play great, the coaches, this team is too gud on paper and this game vs the bills better show, this is the bestest reg. season game they got"
bp Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:47pm ET"The coaches need to get control of Favre. That's the same thing McCarthy did last year and Favre did an awesome job last year. You can't let Brett try to run the entire game himself because he will take too many risks. Coaches have to take control of this and the result will turn out great I guarantee it."
Gang Green Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 12:51pm ET"First of all I thought it was brilliant that the pick we got for Herman quitting on the Jets burned him yesteday. Second it really is frustrating watching the bad play calling fo the jets. I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback, but it seems that the coaches are trying to appease the media who always second quess why Brett's not throwing. the worst rushing defense and we barely run...terrible."
Ken Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 1:28pm ET"I want to see what BRETT RATCLIFF can do in a real NFL game. Can't be much worst than BRETT FARVE interceptions. I'm serious. RATCLIFF looks like he might be some good in waiting. Lets see what RATCLIFF can do."
mike ex jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 1:29pm ET"Marty Lyons .. I agree with u all the way ... But isn't that the speech they heard last week .. Hope it's taken seriously this week cause this game won't be close if not .. Wish u would get in the locker room & tell them face to face ..Also wish u & the sack exchange were playing the bills .. Instead of this bunch of premadonnas never seen u guys rush 3 in crewcial situations"
mike ex jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 2:09pm ET"Here's the defining point for the players-coaches- owners & yes the season .....The same way we gave Trent Edwards the wings to fly with his team last year>.Time to clip them & Then maybe you'll get some respect .. & I believe it would define u as a team ..Being in 1st place & finally win 2 games in a row won't hurt either.. Time 2 step up is now not later.. will be 2 late...Last chance guy's"
Tired Jet Fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 2:27pm ET"The season is over! Losing to Oakland killed the Jets. They looked pathetic against KC. They will lose at least five of their next six games. Maybe all of them. There is no way they will beat Buff, St Louie, N.E. Denv, Tenn, maybe not even S.F. They need to replace these Same Old Jets type coaches."
CFU Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 2:43pm ET"Some of you guys are so FAKE! Calling for Chad to come back and u know that u were callling for his head last year. LOL Sure Favre makes mistakes and so do the other players no ones perfect. All this blame should go toward the COACHING especially OC he needs to get fired. Only reason why Penny is doing good in Miami is because the playcalling is good. I love Penny like the next fan but Favre is better."
steveB Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 4:17pm ET"Guys you are not even touching the fringe of what the current mgt. has done to this team. CP is gone and you get no draft pick 4 him, #4 has 9 games at best left & you give away picks 4 a .500 record, Vilma, Farrior & Abraham are tearing it up and Clemmons ruined. They have set this org. back another 5 yrs. How long will it continue? Pitiful! Lost to Raiders & now they are happy for a W VS Chiefs"
CD Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 4:26pm ET"I don't care what it looked like! They WON. They kept fighting and never gave in to a KC team that never looked better this season. The Jets bring out the best in otherwise poor teams. I think that has alot to do with Farve. Everyone wants to beat him. The team knows they made mistakes, all you experts and critics need to be a little more realistic. Farve is still learning and trying!!!"
supercooljetfan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 4:30pm ET"are you kidding me with this chad come back stuff he only puttin up good #s because they all trick plays"
Row Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 5:26pm ET"I re-watched the game a bit ago and realized Favre actually threw 5 picks, and two were dropped. Coles really has some fire right now. When Favre threw the TD to Leon, he looks at the crowd like "Hey look at me." The media needs to leave him alone, except after a game. I stand by on my statement about Brian the OC, I just don't know where his game-plans are headed. LB play needs to get better. "
sal Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 5:46pm ET"Ratcliff?, gez open the garage door, let some air in. Thanks uncle joe,Randy what was Vinnies record under Parcels, That man makes everyone better. we watched what he built get destroyed. Favre would have gave Parcels a heart attack. I bet well see a diiferent team against the Bills. Im sure KC & Oakland was practice, too many passing plays to be anything else"
Randy Lange Said:
"sal, the Jets were 13-2 with Testaverde as the starter in 1998 (including playoffs) and 0-1 with VT in '99."
Patrick from PA Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 6:03pm ET"Under these coaches, the only thing the Jets are consistent at is being a mediocre team. I am quite convinced they have no idea what they are doing and just wing it week to week and call it a "team specific game plan". After 3 years the only noticeable improvement has been the run D and that's because of one man. Jenkins. Not the coaches. Keep Tannenbaum and dump the rest. "
jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 6:25pm ET"randy many people here are ripping on favres ints. i was wondering, how does his int count [career] compare with other great qbs that have played as long, or per year average. i realize this would be a lot of reasearch so , only if you have free time. thank you . like the articles."
Randy Lange Said:
"Thanks, jak. A short answer to your question is that among the top 20 all-time passers by rating before this season, Brett Favre had an NFL-record 288 interceptions, Dan Marino threw 252 and Jim Kelly 175. Favre's career INT percentage before this season was 3.3 and Kelly's was the highest at 3.7. "
jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 7:27pm ET"thank you randy. this is the first sports site ive ever posted comments on. whatever anyone has to say about this season, ..its been exciting. here in midwest ,they only telivise about 1 in 3 jet games or half a game . at one time fox ,nbc and cbs would have football on all sunday. pete rozelle knew what he was doing."
Donna Said:
Mon, October 27, 2008 - 7:29pm ET"Wow! Nothing anyone says against Favre will EVER change the records he set or what he is trying to do now. He is re-learning to play...jumped right in months ago. For him to have won 4 games is something to celebrate. To do it at 39, even more. He may set new benchmarks for current players to play beyond if their bodies hold up. I say, Go Jets! Support the WHOLE team which Favre is part of."
Ray Said:
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 2:45am ET"All you guys rippin the Jets for getting nothing for Chad weren't paying attention back when that happened. As soon as they signed Favre every team knew we had to dump Chad's salary, so they weren't about to offer anything when they knew he would be released in another day. To get something for Chad they would have had to trade him long before we picked up Favre."
SteveB Said:
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 1:03pm ET"Ray: The current mgt. team never intended to keep Chad for anything but a back-up so your theory does'nt hold water. He was not the future for the Jets because Tangini had mistakenly hung the franchise QB label on Clemmons. What they did is nothing but manage by flying by the seat of there pants. Just as they did DRob, J MC and the rest. They cant see the forest for the trees. Got it ??"
Ray Said:
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 2:56pm ET"Well SteveB thanks for all that insight. I didn't realize you were on the coaching staff. Because regardless of what you think, CP was very likely our starting qb this year, he was outplaying KC in the preseason. Never said he was the future, try and follow here, once they picked up Favre NO ONE was going to give anything for him, thus they released him. Got it?"
SteveB Said:
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 7:02pm ET"Ray:Chill out but I did'nt know your insight was any different than mine. It is an opinion!! The fact that CP was winning the QB comp is what forced Tangini to make the Favre move. By the way how is that working out?Surely you can't be satisfied with the coaching job considering all the upgrades in players. Did they think they could win with CP?? No!! So why keep him??Should have traded him April"
NY Jet Said:
Tue, October 28, 2008 - 7:49pm ET"My question is where is clowney? We need a speed guy who can get beyond the safeties and stretch the field. Cotchery and coles are posession type receivers not deep threats. I have also been dissapointed in the play of the offensive line. Bret is constantly facing pressure give the man time back there."
Ray Said:
Wed, October 29, 2008 - 3:04am ET"SteveB my insight is no different from yours or anyone else's in here, your right it is all opinion. My point was to those who felt we should have gotten something for CP after trading for Favre. You are right, if they wanted to get anything for him, they would have had to trade him much earlier. And it is working out as I feared the worst case scenario might go."
TnJetsFan Said:
Wed, October 29, 2008 - 11:59am ET"All I can say is if the Jets lose on Sunday, Eric Mangini should begin updating his resume despite what Woody Johnson said about his job being safe no matter what, because things will get downright UGLY. Fans are really fed up with is act and if Jets lose to Buffalo it will be a downward spiral from there to a 5-11 finish."
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Frank Said:
Sun, October 26, 2008 - 8:30pm ET"Nice haircut Mangini...not much else to say."
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